On August 25, 2018,
The Piazza hosted a 13th Age Q&A on its Discord. I was the host of this three-hour chat, which featured 13th Age designers Jonathan Tweet, Wade Rocket, and Aaron Roudabush. Several other noteworthy members of the community joined us, including Nick from the
Iconic Podcast and Martin Killmann, designer of
Dark Pacts & Ancient Secrets.
We had up to 19 people online at once, and had 38 users join us. Most importantly, we had a fun discussion, and there was never a lack of conversation!
I've captured the transcripts from the Q&A session and present them here for anyone who wasn't able to make it or would like to refer back to what was said.
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 07:14 AM
The Discord server for The Piazza is a members only server, but we occasionally invite non-members to join us in the Guest Discussions section. Please see the #announcements section if you want more information about this Discord server and how to apply for permanent membership of The Piazza.
Pinned a message.
Here are some useful links to start off
@phantom_tim's 13th Age Q&A session:
Wikipedia;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Age13th Age SRD:
http://www.13thagesrd.com/ 13th Age homepage:
http://site.pelgranepress.com/index.php/category/products/13th-age/13th Age Twitter page:
https://twitter.com/13thage13th Age forum at The Piazza: There is not one yet, but add a "[13th Age]" tag to any topics you want to add to The Crunchy Bits:
http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewforum.php?f=86
13th Age is a d20 fantasy tabletop role-playing game designed by Rob Heinsoo (lead designer of Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition) and Jonathan Tweet (lead designer of D&D 3rd Edition), and published by Pelgrane Press.
Publishers of the GUMSHOE RPG system, 13th Age RPG, and the Dying Earth RPG
An RPG by #DnD designers @RobHeinsoo and @JonathanMTweet that blends collaborative storytelling and worldbuilding with d20-rolling heroic fantasy.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 12:31 PM
Thanks for the intro, @Big Mac!
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:02 PM
Good afternoon, to those of you in the U.S. Good morning and good evening to others who are joining us from around the globe.
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:02 PM
hello
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:04 PM
Thanks for joining us as we discuss 13th Age, a fantasy d20 system that takes some of the greatest ideas from various editions of D&D, and adds in some story game elements, and a bunch of new mechanics to kick the fun up a notch.
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:04 PM
thanks for setting this up, Tim
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:04 PM
My pleasure, @Jonathan!
I'm a passionate fan of 13th Age, regularly running one-shots, talking about it on The Piazza and other social media venues.
Havard
25-Aug-18 01:04 PM
This should be interesting 😃
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:05 PM
I've done a lot of story-oriented RPGs, so it was nice to bring that approach to d20-style roleplaying for once
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:05 PM
I'm also one of the two editors of the Escalation fanzine, where the fans of 13th Age get the opportunity to play in the wonderful Dragon Empire setting and share their creatures with other fans.
We have with us Jonathan Tweet, co-designer of 13th Age!
Jonathan Tweet has been a professional RPG designer for 30 years. He was the lead designer on D&D 3rd Edition, and 13th Age was his chance to do a d20-style game without following the brand directives of a big corporation.
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:06 PM
Hello
I'm actually at a game convention, and I have an event coming up, but I can be here for a while
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:07 PM
We truly appreciate any time you can spend with us. It's exciting to have you here.
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:07 PM
Tim's fanzine is up to 5 issues now, right, Tim?
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:07 PM
That's correct.
So to get things started, would you mind sharing with us some of the elements that makes 13th Age different from other fantasy d20-based games?
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:08 PM
The game emphasizes the creativity of the players and GM
Players invent unique features for their characters, the "one unique thing", sort of like a character in a book
And players invent "backgrounds" for their characters instead of selecting skills from a list
So if your character is a dwarf fighter, they're different from any other dwarf fighter than anyone else has ever invented or will invent.
The setting, the Dragon Empire, is the same sort of thing but for the GM.
The setting is "half-designed", with the broad strokes laid down, but it's designed specifically to make it easy for the GM to take it in a new direction.
Characters are also connected to the 13 "icons", which are the powerful NPCs that are common in traditinal D&D campaigns: a High Druid, an Archmage, a Lich King, etc.
-done
I forgot to say that combat is faster and more exciting! That's the other side of the coin. Great story plus fun combat.
-now I'm done
Havard
25-Aug-18 01:12 PM
quick combat is a good thing
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:13 PM
I learned with 3rd Ed how important fast combat is, and in 13th Age it's even better.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:13 PM
One of the things that drew me to 13th Age when I'd been running 4th Edition D&D for a while was the pace of combat. Would you mind elaborating on how 13th Age speeds combat up?
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:14 PM
For one thing, there's the escalation die. Every round starting with the second round, the escalation die increments up +1 from 0 on the first round to +6 on the 7th round.
Characters add that number to their attack rolls, so combats never drag on
At the end of the battle, there are fewer misses so things go faster
Havard
25-Aug-18 01:15 PM
Interesting. Does the escalation die favor NPCs, players or or does it feel balanced between the sides?
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:15 PM
Also, the combat rules are "soft". There's no grid, so it takes less time to take your turn
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 01:16 PM
So @Jonathan Tweet and @waderockett (he/him). Nice!
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 01:16 PM
Hello!
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:16 PM
The monsters are balanced with the escalation die in mind. There are clear rules for setting up encounters to be balnced.
Havard
25-Aug-18 01:17 PM
cool 😃
Hello Waderockett 😃
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 01:17 PM
@phantom_tim has been trying to get enough 13th Age fans to sign up to the forums to let him win a bespoke 13th Age forum at The Piazza.
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:17 PM
The escalation die only adds to the PCs' attacks, so lots of battles start out feeling dangers, but if the PCs can last it out, they will usually come out ahead.
The rules are designed for quick play. For example, you can "flee" any time you want and get away safely, but you have to take a "campaign loss".
Fleeing means you're safe but in the big picture things go bad
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:18 PM
@Havard, the escalation die is typically something that only PCs take advantage of. There are exceptions, such as dragons. When the players realize that the big dragon they're fighting is also adding the escalation die to its attacks, you can see the concern on their faces.
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:18 PM
That makes the decision to flee cleaner. You don't have to play out fleeing round by round as you would in a simulation
Havard
25-Aug-18 01:19 PM
ahh, I understand better now 😃
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 01:19 PM
There are some monsters that use the escalation die in interesting ways, such as powers that activate when the die is at a certain level, or stealing it from the PCs.
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:19 PM
One thing I like about the escalation die is that sometimes there are special circumstances where the players can't use it, and that hurts.
other questions?
Havard
25-Aug-18 01:20 PM
The campaign loss concept sounds really interesting
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:21 PM
@Jonathan, do you have any fun examples of how the escalation die has been taken away in games you've run?
Perhaps involving Chaos?...
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:22 PM
I like making monsters that "turn off" the escalation die.
The Fear effect does that, and "fear" has a hp threshold.
At the end of a fight when your hp are lower, you fall under the monster's fear effect.
We faced dretches two weeks ago, and they're wimps, but they have a fear effect
the players have to watch their hit points and get healing if they drop below the fear threshold
Chaos is a world-eating force in Glorantha
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 01:24 PM
I'm here to make all other designers look better with my incompetence. Hi.
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:24 PM
There are lots of weird effects for the escalation die in Glorantha.
Havard
25-Aug-18 01:24 PM
Hello Wolfsamurai 😃
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:24 PM
Hi
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 01:24 PM
YAY. Hey Aaron!
johnsonny
25-Aug-18 01:25 PM
@Jonathan have those battles when the die was removed or Fear was a major component felt like they dragged on more than they do otherwise?
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:25 PM
Sometimes Chaos monsters "steal" the escalation die, so they get the bonus instead of the PCs
Havard
25-Aug-18 01:25 PM
@Jonathan I had forgotten tat 13A supports Glorantha. That is interesting 😃
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:25 PM
We have several folks from the 13th Age design team with us, now.
Wade Rockett is the co-author of the ENNie-winning 13th Age GM Screen and Resource book, wrote the adventures The Wreck of Volund's Glory and Temple of the Sun Cabal, contributed to the Bestiary 2, and worked on 13th Age material for Kobold Press.
Welcome to our chat, @waderockett (he/him)!
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 01:25 PM
@Havard I think Tim put together a comprehensive list of 13th Age compatible settings.
Thanks, @phantom_tim !
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:26 PM
@johnsonny the battles still go pretty fast because the monsters with anti-escalation effects have their stats balanced to even out the challenge.
The longest battles are when the PCs are losing but the escalation die lets them keep fighting until finally they win.
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 01:27 PM
@Jonathan miss damage also helps with that.
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:27 PM
I had a battle like that where three characters were unconscious and the fourth PC was at 1 hp when he finally took out the last enemy. That was a long battle.
Havard
25-Aug-18 01:27 PM
@waderockett (he/him) @phantom_tim Thanks for the link! 😃
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 01:27 PM
my players often whittle down enemies with Escalation 6 and miss damage.
@Jonathan a scenario like that feels like a 13th Age thing -- there's always a chance if you can just hang on long enough.
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:28 PM
"Miss damage" is a great example of a rule that's fun but that wouldn't have fit in D&D 3E.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:28 PM
Why not?
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:28 PM
When characters miss with melee attacks, they do a little bit of damage anyway, usually their level in damage.
It's not a simulation. It's a rule that supports action and drama, but in D&D your damage is based on your weapon and strength, not level.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:30 PM
That's a great distinction.
13th Age does a fantastic job of capturing the cinematic feel of fantasy combat, but isn't intended to act as a simulation.
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:31 PM
13th Age combat is cinematic. That's why weapon damage goes up with your level, sort of like it used to in some 70s-era designs
The cinematic style also appears in the mook rules.
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 01:32 PM
A often see posts on social media where someone shares a clip of an over-the-top Bollywood battle and say, THIS is what 13th Age feels like.
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:32 PM
When theres a group of mooks, attacks are against the group, not individual mooks, and you can take down multiples with a single attack, again like certain old-school systems before D&D became more simulationist
You also get to determine what your weapon looks like. If you fight with a two-handed martial weapon, you can basically say it's an ax, a maul, a halberd, or whatever you like.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:34 PM
It reminds me of the fighter's cleave damage to monsters with 1hd or less in original D&D.
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:34 PM
@phantom_tim exactly right
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:34 PM
I wanted to take a moment to introduce @WolfSamurai, another designer who's joined us.
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:34 PM
Empire of the Petal Throne had the same sort of rule, where you dealt more damage at high levels when fighting weaker enemies
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:35 PM
Aaron/WolfSamurai is a long time 13th Age fan/designer who has contributed to Bestiary 2, the 13th Age Organized Play adventures, and the Nocturne setting from Savage Mojo. He has had a long time 13th Age oriented Patreon which currently is creating a brand new magitech/steampunk setting called Shattered Horizons.
Become a patron of Aaron Roudabush today:
Read 258 posts by Aaron Roudabush and get access to exclusive
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waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 01:36 PM
@Jonathan You've mentioned the old Arduin books being an influence/inspiration. What did you take away from those?
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:36 PM
Rob and I both loved the old Arduin books by Dave Arneson
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:36 PM
@Jonathan or @waderockett (he/him), do you have any thoughts on how you might model those massive battles against mooks that you sometimes see in Bollywood movies? The mook rules work wonderfully when the bad guys are on the receiving end of the PCs' attacks, but as the GM, I don't want to roll 100 d20's to account for their counterattack arrow volley.
dimbyd
25-Aug-18 01:36 PM
Baahubali is the Indian film referred to
Jojiro
25-Aug-18 01:37 PM
In a lot of circles that I'm in, I hear a bit of lamenting that the big game of D&D has no real market competition. It takes the lion's share of the market, Pathfinder takes most of the rest, and everyone else seems to jockey for the remaining crumbs.
It's a sort of pessimism/cynicsm that can be hard to talk about positively.
My impression is that at least with 13th Age, you weren't concerned with this. You were just going to make the game you wanted to play, market and sacred cows all torn asunder. Was that a difficult decision, or was that a no-brainer from the get-go? Is there a perspective I can offer that might lend some positivity to the cynical view that "even with 13th Age out there, look, 5e still dominates, sigh sigh pout pout"?
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 01:37 PM
@dimbyd I was just trying to find it. 😃
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:37 PM
Sorry, Dave Hargrave is Arduin.
We loved the energy that vitalized those books. It was obvious that Hargrave loved running his world.
dimbyd
25-Aug-18 01:37 PM
Plz Guys Share and Subscribe
Happy to help...
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:38 PM
Late in his career, Hargrave did a masterwork that people don't remember, a beginner-friendly version of his system.
Lots of the innovations in 13th Age appeared in that game in the 80s.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:39 PM
Do you recall the name of the game?
I'd love to check it out.
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:39 PM
For example, fighters can get a bonus to Strength bonus if their race doesn't give them that bonus. That way you can play any race as a fight, and you will get a bonus on your Str.
Havard
25-Aug-18 01:39 PM
I didnt expect to see Hargrave referenced here. That is very cool 😃
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:39 PM
Arduin Adventure.
Monte Cook is also a big Arduin fan.
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 01:39 PM
@phantom_tim Regarding staging battles where the PCs take on literally hundreds of mooks, my first instinct would be to say "1 mook actually equals 25 mooks".
That 1 group of 25 mooks' attacks are rolled as 1 attack.
Take out that 1 mook and 25 villains are laid out i n the dust.
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:41 PM
I figure I'm going to split in about 10 minutes, by the way. Got to get back to the con.
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 01:41 PM
I've got to say that I really like the fact that 13th Age uses the OGL and has an SRD.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:41 PM
Thanks for the heads up, @Jonathan. What con are you at, by the way?
Casey P
25-Aug-18 01:41 PM
What kinds of future products do you guys have for Glorantha that you'd like to do? 13G has a lot of hints at future products but it'd be cool to hear more.
dimbyd
25-Aug-18 01:42 PM
How often do you play a trickster duck?
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:42 PM
@Jojiro Rob and I thought that 13th Age was just the best project we could do together. We're best friends, and we work together better than either of us works with anyone else. On some level, 13th Age was just our "position statement" on d20 fantasy. "This is how it should be done."
I would not play a duck
just me
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 01:43 PM
I'm guessing Rob would totally play a duck.
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:43 PM
@phantom_tim When running gigantic battles, you can gang multiple attacks into one. Like each d20 attack is for 5 attackers, who all hit or all miss.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:43 PM
@waderockett (he/him), that's a great suggestion. Treat individual mooks like a swarm, essentially. I hadn't thought of combining the two approaches into one. That would be a ton of fun. You should add that to the next edition of the GM Resource Book. 😃
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:43 PM
I would definitely play a trickster, though. I love that class
dimbyd
25-Aug-18 01:44 PM
My last 13Age game, I played a Trickster duck- huge fun
It’s a lovely class
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:44 PM
I'm at Dragonflight Game Con in Bellevue. It's the 39th year.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:45 PM
I chose the wrong week to be in Bellevue (I was there last week).
I need to coordinate my monthly work trips better. 😄
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:45 PM
@Casey P We haven't announced anything yet for 13G, but we have some ideas. The trick is to provide material that the GM can use a variety of ways, since every campaign is different.
Yes, you do, @phantom_tim
@dimbyd A trickster duck actually makes perfect sense.
Jojiro
25-Aug-18 01:47 PM
Do you encourage aspiring designers to do something similar? To make their position statement, so-to-speak, on the fantasy system of their choice?
In one discussion, I was told by an OSR gal that 'everyone ideally should try to make their own system, if just to answer questions about what they really like'. In another, I was told that when designing, it's important because so many games have been published already to really try to innovate and reach new audiences, and that 'making a heartbreaker' was a huge waste of time.
It's awkward being in that position as a hobbyist (me and co.) rather than as a professional publisher, but still. It'd be nice to hear your take on those questions.
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:48 PM
We had a great trickster in our campaign. He thought he was an implacable death lord. Then he led us on a heroquest, and when it came time to fight the zombie trolls, he one-shotted the big one. The player narrated that, for once, the character really looked like a full on, badass death lord, instead of a lunatic. Cool heroquest.
@Jojiro my advice is to self-publish if you can, and to try to make a game or adventure that is valuable to others. Lots of different things can make something valuable. Rob and I are both really devoted to serving the needs of the players and GMs.
last question for me?
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:50 PM
If you could change one thing in 13th Age, after the learnings of the past 6 years, what would it be?
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:52 PM
I would change the damage curve. The system works for the most part, but PC damage and monster hp are both higher than they need to be. Since they're both higher, it's all balanced, but things sometimes get weird because the PC attacks deal more damage than the monsters' attacks.
that's the perfectionist in my speaking because the system works fine as it is
OK, thanks again, @phantom_tim
I'm taking off.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:53 PM
That's great insight. Thank you for sharing that.
Jonathan
25-Aug-18 01:53 PM
See you, everybody.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:53 PM
It's been wonderful having you join us, @Jonathan!
Havard
25-Aug-18 01:53 PM
Thank you @Jonathan !
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:53 PM
Thanks so much for taking time out of your con schedule to take our questions. We appreciate it.
@waderockett (he/him) are you working on any 13th Age projects that you're allowed to talk about?
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 01:56 PM
Thanks Jonathan.
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 01:56 PM
Due to Life Stuff I paused taking on new big writing projects about a year ago. I'm still working with Pelgrane on marketing and community, and one of the big topics is how to proceed with organized play.
We definitely want there to be a new season.
But we want to make it better.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:57 PM
The 13th Age Alliance adventures have been a huge source of fun for me and my various groups.
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 01:57 PM
They're so good!
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:57 PM
Indeed. Thank you @WolfSamurai!
dimbyd
25-Aug-18 01:58 PM
Also free!
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 01:58 PM
They were a lot of fun to write, especially since they were so collaborative.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:58 PM
@dimbyd, excellent point.
(edited)
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 01:58 PM
Organised play for 13th Age sounds like it could be fun.
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 01:58 PM
For example, the feedback we got was that we were releasing too many adventures too quickly, so we didn't match the pace at which people were actually playing.
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 01:58 PM
Ryven Cedrille and I worked very well together.
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 01:58 PM
@Big Mac it almost never happened!
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 01:58 PM
@WolfSamurai, organized play (OP) in 13th Age works differently than it does in other systems. Would you share with us how that came to be, and what makes it different?
dimbyd
25-Aug-18 01:59 PM
Always good to have material for systems at different price points including free.
Jojiro
25-Aug-18 02:00 PM
How do benchmarks work, anyway, once you've got a community for a tabletop game? Is it something akin to "we want to do better than our last run" (whether it be last season, last month, last quarter) or do you aim for a particular benchmark, like "we want to have X participation this season based on our projections"?
I ask because a lot of tabletop stuff, even today, seems to spread primarily through word-of-mouth and hobby stores. Rarely do game designers treat their audiences as market data, at least not in any visible way. I'm curious if it's more similar to self-improvement in that regard (my first example) than anything else.
Related question: is there merit in establishing a streaming brand for 13th Age, the way that PbtA and D&D 5e have (relatively) well-known streams promoting them?
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 02:01 PM
One of the big things we had to keep in mind while writing was the idea that was called "Bus Stop Adventures". We needed to have certain common points in every adventure that we could expect players to get on or get off of that adventure. Which meant that we had to anticipate that different groups would do things very differently, but still had to end up at the same location as every other group. So we couldn't write many critical NPCs or have adventures that hinged on certain choices because there's no guarantee that every group would be arriving at that same choice or interacting with that NPC the same way
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:02 PM
@Jojiro I'll let @WolfSamurai fill y'all in on how 13th Age OP is distinctive, then talk about marketing.
Jojiro
25-Aug-18 02:02 PM
Sorry btw if my q are too long. Mods can tell me to be brief and i will dutifully do so!
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:03 PM
You're asking great questions, @Jojiro. 😃
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 02:03 PM
However, one of the big things about really good and memorable adventures is often a fun NPC that players work with or hate or somesuch. So we had to be very creative on how to get that investment without relying on what might otherwise be considered a staple of adventure writing.
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 02:03 PM
You are cool @Jojiro. The only people not welcome at The Piazza are troublemakers.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:03 PM
@WolfSamurai, Wade mentioned that OP almost didn't come to be. What's the story behind that?
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:04 PM
@WolfSamurai also the way you had to handle the customization and houseruling that 13th Age encourages.
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 02:05 PM
That story of how it almost didn't happen is, unfortunately, a little before I joined in on the fun. And yes, the way we had to handle the way that players could do so much, made us have to address a lot of things in a way that was almost like suggestions instead of firm instructions.
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:06 PM
Rob felt that OP would never work for 13th Age because OP requires standardizing rules so that everyone is playing the same game, and you can take your character to any table.
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 02:07 PM
I'd heard that it was also a time/effort thing too Wade. That we didn't have many people who were able to devote time to it and make them what we felt were acceptable quality without drawing away from other products being worked on at the time.
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:07 PM
ASH LAW convinced him that all we needed to do was say that you couldn't have anything about your character that overrules everyone else. For example, a One Unique Thing like "I am the only elf in the world."
Which could be fine at a home campaign!
Jojiro
25-Aug-18 02:07 PM
Wade Rockett, since we're on the topic, I want to tell you that the Booth in a Box (I have the 2015 updated version) is really a work of beauty. Like, it takes a huge part of the creative process and without standardizing it, nonetheless proceduralizes it. Makes it approachable.
I can't express how much I love that package. I've sent it to folks playing 5th Edition, Shadow of the Demon Lord, Dungeon World, and it has principles which work well even in those games. So thank you and the team for that packet. Super neat.
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:08 PM
ASH said he could handle the design, so Rob let him take a shot at it.
Jojiro
25-Aug-18 02:08 PM
(is it an in-joke or something that ASH LAW is always written in all caps?)
Zurei
25-Aug-18 02:08 PM
I've wondered that for ages myself
mmaneval
25-Aug-18 02:08 PM
SAME
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:09 PM
@Jojiro I'm glad! Yeah, running the 13th Age 2-hour demo is like doing a parlor trick. I didn't think I could improvise an adventure based on players' choices during character generation, BUT IT WORKS.
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 02:09 PM
I've wanted to update the 2 hour demo for a long time. I've talked it over with Rob and he tends to agree, but in a lot of ways it was decided that the Battle Scenes books did what I wanted to do. I have some specific adventures that I wrote using those guidelines.
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:09 PM
Ha! Yeah, he always writes his name ASH LAW. That is the official capitalization.
OKAY SO MARKETING
Second question first: Yes, streaming is good and we're working on it, starting with the Pelgrane Press channel. We're also talking to various streamers.
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 02:11 PM
I actually streamed many many hours of 13th Age, most of which is archived on my Youtube channel.
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:11 PM
If you're a mid-tier RPG publisher or above, you have to pay attention to streaming or get left in the dust.
Yep.
@WolfSamurai has streamed many stellar sessions, and the next step is to make it part of what we do as a company.
The same way we blog, tweet, post on FB...
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 02:12 PM
Nice @WolfSamurai. Do you have playlists for your 13th Age games?
Jojiro
25-Aug-18 02:13 PM
The right chemistry on a stream is absolutely magical, and would be a wonderful way to get skeptics past the front door for 13th Age. I think showing 5e fans a 13th Age stream would do a lot more for highlighting the differences than just talking mechanics. Especially since both games use the word "background" so it sounds samey but it's sooooo different in play.
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 02:14 PM
I do, actually. I've had 2 big campaigns as well as several one-shots and online con games. I'll link my channel in just a moment.
This isn't the channel you're looking for. Move along. Okay, if I have to do one of these, this is where I post all my strange geeky things. Video games, tab...
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:15 PM
@Jojiro asked, "How do benchmarks work, anyway, once you've got a community for a tabletop game? Is it something akin to "we want to do better than our last run" (whether it be last season, last month, last quarter) or do you aim for a particular benchmark, like "we want to have X participation this season based on our projections"?"
Jojiro
25-Aug-18 02:16 PM
if you actually manage a streaming group all in one location with a set that'd be wild. also ridiculously expensive and tough logistically. but wild.
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 02:16 PM
On several occasions, I've wanted to do more "all-star" 13th Age sessions or mini-campaigns, to get people who otherwise are only familiar with 5e or Pathfinder to see the fun things 13th Age does, but it's always a logistical challenge.
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:17 PM
At the moment we're looking at "Are we producing material that meets our standard of quality, without burning designers out, and without impacting the development of other projects, and which creates positive buzz and leads to more sales of the game?"
Zurei
25-Aug-18 02:17 PM
@WolfSamurai Any particular ones you'd recommend on your channel to try lure a group into trying the system and give them a good overview and taste for it?
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 02:18 PM
@waderockett (he/him): Not burning out designers is pretty important. I've followed a few interesting product lines over the years that have ground to a halt for one reason or another.
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 02:18 PM
The best ones I have are the Make Your Own Luck session, the 13th Age With Chaosium demo, and Roll20CON 2016. They're all a lot of fun and are good because they have Q&A or are full of explanations of how the game works.
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 02:18 PM
It's good that you are looking after that aspect.
Zurei
25-Aug-18 02:19 PM
@WolfSamurai Thank you! Huge fan of the system, but my one 5e group is hesitant despite already luring over a second group for over a year now. 😄
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:20 PM
@Big Mac it's an occupational hazard when you work on something you love.
@Jojiro also said, "I ask because a lot of tabletop stuff, even today, seems to spread primarily through word-of-mouth and hobby stores. Rarely do game designers treat their audiences as market data, at least not in any visible way."
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:20 PM
@Zurei, I was able to lure my D&D group over by introducing "house rules" based on 13th Age. I did that for several months, and the group loved the new rules. Eventually, I pulled back the curtain and explained that these were all from 13th Age. We switched as soon as we wrapped up that campaign, and have been playing 13th Age ever since.
Jojiro
25-Aug-18 02:22 PM
I've had the same luck with lures.
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:22 PM
The vast majority of RPG companies absolutely rely on word of mouth and community engagement for sales, because they have marketing budgets ranging from zero to a few hundred dollars. Social media is great for this, as are retailers, but retailers can be a hard nut to crack because they have to believe promting your game is worthwhile. (Assuming they've even heard of it.)
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 02:22 PM
The way that sometimes can work, at least in my experience, is not to do a direct comparison. to D&D (any edition) or Pathfinder. Let people play it, even just a single demo session, and see for themselves how it works and how it can fit different people better.
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:23 PM
It's all about resources. We know that 13th Age is Pelgrane's most-played game because we do track data, but we could do even better with more resources.
Yeah, as @WolfSamurai says, NOTHING beats sitting down and actually playing 13th Age to get what it's about.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:24 PM
You make a good point @WolfSamurai. And I'll be the first to recognize that not all games fit all gamers. As much as I love 13th Age, I completely understand why some people prefer other games. It's best to try a game out for yourself, and then make up your mind.
Jojiro
25-Aug-18 02:24 PM
I just wish there was something actionable I could do to make (for example) 13th Age at least competitive with Pathfinder, or to make some other game I like competitive with some other game which is doing better.
But because tabletop RPGs are such a huge time commitment, even just convincing one group to swap systems is a huge chore, nevermind successfully altering a market. I consider it a win when I get four folks to try the game even if they don't stick to it. 😅
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:25 PM
So "we want to do better" is really about self-improvement, and increasing sales so we have the budget to do more good stuff.
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 02:25 PM
Can you get data on how many people use 13th Age on Roll 20?
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:26 PM
@Jojiro, I'm with you. I talk about 13th Age in all of my social media channels. I'm active talking about it on The Piazza.
I also run a lot of one-shots. For example, I run a game for my company's interns, each summer.
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 02:26 PM
It can be exceptionally get people into a new system. Because the new system doesn't just have to be better or more fun, it has to be so much better or more fun that it overcomes the inertia that comes from playing another game.
Zurei
25-Aug-18 02:26 PM
Heh. We'd be skewing the numbers on Roll20. The one group that does play has rotating DMs and three of us are running 3 separate games for it currently. We really love the ease and flexibility of the system. I'm a huge homebrewer for content and pathfinder/5e really beat me down on prep times. Switching to 13th Age literally had me spending 1/4 to 1/2 thetime on prep I was before if not better.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:27 PM
It may be small, but if I can win over a few other evangelists in my gaming lifetime, and they can, in turn, win over a few more evangelists, and so on, we have a grassroots movement.
I would also suggest demoing the game to non-gamers.
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:27 PM
@Jojiro I recommend accepting that 13th Age will never be a serious competitor with Pathfinder or D&D. Ours is a weird, quirky, opinionated little game. Better to get it into the hands of people who will really appreciate it.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:28 PM
The atmosphere is primed for "D&D" right now. Take advantage of that.
Jojiro
25-Aug-18 02:28 PM
yes, very much this
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:28 PM
I used to have to explain what D&D was. Now, I mention D&D to my interns, and they all want to play, but no one has showed them how.
Jojiro
25-Aug-18 02:28 PM
i run 13th age if folks aren't primed
and folks always love it
if they're already primed to want pathfinder or 5e it's a no-go
but if they just like the idea of tabletop rpgs and wonder what the fuss is about
i show them only 13th age fuss
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:28 PM
Of course, I run 13th Age for them. 😉
Zurei
25-Aug-18 02:29 PM
Very true @Jojiro . I think that is my other group's thing, they are already so invested in 5e it's hard to pull someone away from that
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 02:29 PM
I love the Battle Scenes books, they’re excellent. A wealth of adventures.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:29 PM
@Zurei, I've experienced that. You won't be able to win over every group.
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:29 PM
I think 13th Age is great for people whose exposure to RPGs is Critical Role or The Adventure Zone, because it has the kind of storytelling they expect baked into the rules.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:30 PM
Very much so!
mmaneval
25-Aug-18 02:30 PM
13th Age came out my freshmen year of college and I ended up running it for my entire college career. Now, off the top of my head, at least 4 of my former players are now GMs of their own 13th Age campaigns. It's fun seeing the product of 13th Age evangelism
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:30 PM
@Matchstick, I love the Battle Scenes books, too. I draw from them all the time when I need an encounter to bridge the gap from one story arc to another.
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:30 PM
It helps that 13A is fun to GM. 😃
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:30 PM
They don't get enough love/publicity.
@mmaneval that's awesome!
@waderockett (he/him) it really is fun to GM. Very low prep. It lets the players decide what's fun, and then gets out of the way.
(edited)
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 02:32 PM
@phantom_tim I’ve always felt they’re a bit misnamed. ‘Battle Scenes’ makes them sound like less than they are, IMO
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:32 PM
The Battle Scenes books changed my life.
@Matchstick YES
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:32 PM
@Matchstick, very true.
They're so much more than just crunchy battles. They're each an adventure.
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:33 PM
If they'd been titled ICONIC ADVENTURES maybe
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 02:33 PM
I actually talked to Simon about that at GenCon
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:33 PM
@mmaneval, how did you get so many of your players to try out GMing? I still find that to be a challenge.
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 02:33 PM
Yeah, the Battle Scenes title and misunderstanding has been talked about more than a few times.
Zurei
25-Aug-18 02:34 PM
Speaking for myself, one player has always been interested since I started. Another player that joined recently already had DM experience and after playing a few sessions in 13th Age wanted to switch a game to it for ease seeing how easy it was to run
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 02:34 PM
Oddly, I find it’s tempting for people to GM once they know how monsters work. The ‘programming’.
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:34 PM
Folks, I have to take off, but thank you so much for joining this chat, and huge thanks to @phantom_tim for organizing it.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 02:34 PM
Thanks Wade!
Zurei
25-Aug-18 02:34 PM
@waderockett (he/him) Thank you so much!
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:34 PM
Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions, @waderockett (he/him)! It was great having you join us!
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:35 PM
EVERYONE READ THE ESCALATION FANZINE AND LISTEN TO THE ICONIC FAN PODCAST
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 02:35 PM
Thanks Wade. Take care of yourself.
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 02:35 PM
Thanks @waderockett (he/him)
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:35 PM
AND SUPPORT AARON'S PATREON
That is all. 😄
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 02:35 PM
Maybe @phantom_tim should be doing a Patreon too.
waderockett (he/him)
25-Aug-18 02:36 PM
Have a great weekend, all.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:36 PM
You too!
mmaneval
25-Aug-18 02:36 PM
Thanks @waderockett (he/him)
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 02:36 PM
Right now my Patreon is working on guns. Lots of guns. It's good times.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 02:36 PM
I’ve tempted people into GMing just by showing them the Bestiaries
Jojiro
25-Aug-18 02:36 PM
anyone recommend a favorite battle scenes book or moment?
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:36 PM
@Matchstick, that's a great tactic. I'll have to remember that.
mmaneval
25-Aug-18 02:36 PM
@phantom_tim The last semester, faced with the inevitable future in which we split, one by one they volunteered to GM a one-shot each week. So no real advice. But I did emphasize how easy the game was to GM, so maybe that helped a bit? idk
Zurei
25-Aug-18 02:37 PM
Initially i was a bit taken back by the bestiaries, but that was more because of the art. After I gave it a chance they are such a great resource. Especially once you remove the concept that this "goblin" has to be a goblin.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 02:37 PM
The Bestiaries are SO good (I like 2 better than 1), but the stat blocks aren’t intimidating
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:37 PM
@Big Mac, I'd need to have something to spend donations on for a Patreon. Right now, Escalation gets all the content it needs from the fans.
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 02:37 PM
I like 2 better than 1, but I also worked on it, so... 😃
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:38 PM
@mmaneval, I love that. That's the kind of evangelism I'm looking to participate to.
Jojiro
25-Aug-18 02:38 PM
layout artist and content artist, tim.
Zurei
25-Aug-18 02:38 PM
@WolfSamurai Did you do Malatyne out of curiousity?
mmaneval
25-Aug-18 02:38 PM
The Bestiary was the first time I'd read a monster book cover-to-cover
Similarly, the Book of Loot was the first time I'd read a treasure book cover-to-cover
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 02:39 PM
@Zurei I did not, I'm afraid. I did Battle Shades, Elemental Beasts, and Derro. It's why derro are so really really deranged.
Zurei
25-Aug-18 02:39 PM
@WolfSamurai Ooo I love battleshades. I have them slated for one of hte player's stories coming up that I'm very looking forward to.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 02:39 PM
Again, with all the content, just calling them Bestiaries is really underselling them
And the Midgard one is amazing too.
mmaneval
25-Aug-18 02:39 PM
I love Battle Shades. I've planned to use them several times now but the players always go a different way. Some day though...
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:40 PM
@Jojiro it would be fun to make the issues look more professional. A Patreon would need to really take off to pay people what their time is worth.
Zurei
25-Aug-18 02:40 PM
@mmaneval I love the book of loot! I had really wished there were more artifacts and examples of them in it though.
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 02:40 PM
Battle shades were a lot of fun to write because, at least in my head, they just made sense. In a world with necromancy and dark magic, why wouldn't battlefields or places filled with death have something like that?
mmaneval
25-Aug-18 02:40 PM
@Zurei Loot Harder has more artifacts iirc
Zurei
25-Aug-18 02:40 PM
@mmaneval So looking forward to it! We've designed probably 5-6 between the various games, but more examples to draw from would be a lifesaver
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 02:42 PM
@WolfSamurai there’s a cave dwelling scavenger, patient and deadly, in the Midgard Beastiary that struck me the same way
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 02:42 PM
Sometimes in the course of making monsters you get one that just makes you go "... why hasn't someone had this before?" Elemental beasts weren't intended to be like that initially, but kind of ended up that way.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:42 PM
What other questions do folks have about 13th Age? Maybe you have questions about the default campaign setting, the Dragon Empire? Or what products you should check out to get started?
Or how to use 13th Age to support other settings that don't have official support (yet)?
Zurei
25-Aug-18 02:43 PM
That last one I'd be interested in advice on. I've been slowly converting stuff but it's a long process.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 02:43 PM
Icons: necessary or not?
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:44 PM
@Zurei, do you have a particular setting in mind?
@Matchstick, my personal advice is to use Icons when they make sense in the setting. They're yet another way to tie the PCs to the setting from Session 0.
However, they're harder to use in some settings. In those situations, I like 13th Age Glorantha's Rune system.
Jojiro
25-Aug-18 02:45 PM
i run my 5e games in the dragon empire and i run my 13th age games in osr modules, so maybe i can respond a bit to ya, zurei.
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 02:45 PM
Don't be afraid to make Icons more broad or make them into groups/organizations either.
Zurei
25-Aug-18 02:45 PM
@phantom_tim It's my homebrew setting actually. Heavy elemental focus to the world. Lots of magic. Probably a more precise question would be in a world where magic is more commonplace, how do you still make them special? Would you still use quirks? Or how to implement them without it getting excessive?
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:45 PM
If Runes make sense in your world, you can use them as-is. If not, then perhaps you can tie them to something else that would provide player currency.
Zurei
25-Aug-18 02:46 PM
By them I meant magic items specifically
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 02:46 PM
I haven’t seen the Rune system, I’m waiting for the book to show up at my flgs
I really like the idea of Icons being an organization
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:47 PM
@Zurei, you could ignore quirks in commonplace magic items, in a world like that. If you want the PCs to be able to have some "mundane" magic items, perhaps they don't count toward their maximum per level, either. Save that for rare items -- items that have personality, which is what makes them special.
Maybe there are different ways of crafting magic items that have been lost over the ages. These items have a portion of the creator's soul, and thus the quirks.
Whereas you can follow certain arcane steps to produce a +1 sword consistently. Sure, it's magic, but it lacks soul.
Jojiro
25-Aug-18 02:48 PM
so, the 13th age magic options as-listed don't do much, even though rituals cover nearly everything possible.
if you have people who utilize items that are outside of the scope of what heroes can do, you can cause players to feel wonder.
example: if you have a sword with pierces only those who are possessed, and it passes through others without cutting them, that's something which 13th age wouldn't cover, but it also wouldn't be an overpowered item.
also, giving items personalities which are entrenched in foreignness can enhance wonder too. an item which remembers a previous Age in the original game's setting, or that recalls a lost civilization in your homebrew setting.
Zurei
25-Aug-18 02:48 PM
@phantom_tim I like that! Thank you.
Jojiro
25-Aug-18 02:49 PM
typically, stepping outside what would be powerful to a gamer and into what would be wondrous for a real-world person is a good direction to take things, if the system is already high-magic but if you want to evoke strong memories of magic items nonetheless.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:49 PM
@Jojiro that's solid advice.
@Matchstick, my Icons always have organizations associated with them. They happen to have an individual as their "face" (or three, in the case of The Three), but there's a faction that supports each Icon and can be found throughout the Empire.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 02:50 PM
Are there more complex versions of the ‘simple’ classes in the core book?
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:50 PM
Of course, that's just my version of the Dragon Empire. 😃
Jojiro
25-Aug-18 02:51 PM
one of my players met the Black and fell in love with her 🙄
and immediately asked to be employed by her 🙄
Zurei
25-Aug-18 02:51 PM
@Matchstick Some actually! Though many are third party. For instance, Martin K created a "Savage" class that is basically a more complex Barbarian. Been running one for awhile and I find it infinitely more satisfying personally
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:51 PM
@Matchstick 13th Age Glorantha offers more complex versions of some of the classes. The Berserker is a more complex Barbarian, for example.
@Jojiro, there are absolutely times when my PCs interact with the Icons directly, too. Those are rarer instances, though.
@Matchstick, there's also a series of supplements called "The Escalated [Class]," where [Class] can be substituted with many of the core classes. They're available as PDFs on DriveThruRPG.
Jojiro
25-Aug-18 02:53 PM
actually, fun question:
what gender are your Three (anyone) in your world? which of the Three is really the one in charge, or do they share power as equals?
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:53 PM
And Martin K is working on a new supplement that expands each of the core and 13 True Ways classes, giving them all more talents, feats, spells, etc. It's in playtest right now, and the materials are available for free for anyone to try out.
Zurei
25-Aug-18 02:53 PM
What Tim said. A lot of them are incredibly fun and some feel like they should have been in the core book in the first place
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:54 PM
I wouldn't be able to play the Earth Domain Warpriest that I built without using Martin's class enhancements. It's great stuff, and I highly recommend it.
Zurei
25-Aug-18 02:54 PM
His most recent iteration of redoing druid is one I finally really like and enjoy
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 02:55 PM
One thing I see talked about a lot is an association between 13th Age and 4E, but I don’t see it.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:56 PM
Here's a link to the Dark Alleys & Twisted Paths playtest material that
@Zurei and I mentioned:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SwUnZ-aJR6hHVUhAfomnQtHpsaase73xkFtlCrMB0Q0/edit
Dark Alleys & Twisted Paths This is the work-in-progress document and playtest document for my next 13th Age compatible book. The book will feature new material for all classes from the Core Book and 13 True Ways. I’ve set myself the yardstick of at least doubling the amoun...
Zurei
25-Aug-18 02:56 PM
Martin is really good about responding to feedback and questions, so I highly recommend tossing him thoughts and suggestions if you feel up to it
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:56 PM
@Matchstick, 13th Age borrowed some of the mechanics of 4e, but took them in a different direction in terms of the game's feel. I think that's where the comparisons get made.
mmaneval
25-Aug-18 02:57 PM
13th Age attracted me as a 4E fan because it had dragonborn and tieflings and warlords
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 02:57 PM
I'd be interested in knowing how to raid the Dragon Empire to use it in a Spelljammer game. (Go figure!)
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:57 PM
For example, 13th Age's healing, improvement per level, and abilities that can be triggered at-will, per battle, or daily, all point back to their 4e roots.
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 02:57 PM
I've got to head off in a few minutes, so if there are any questions or what not for me (organized play, Nocturne, my patreon, etc) now's the time.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:57 PM
Granted, we see several of those elements in 5e, but keep in mind that 13A came out before 5e.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 02:58 PM
@WolfSamurai thanks for stopping
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:58 PM
But where 4e really shined in its tactical combat and PC building that required software, 13th Age took a different turn and offered theater of the mind combat and PCs you could build with just a book, dice, paper, and pencil.
Zurei
25-Aug-18 02:58 PM
@WolfSamurai Thanks for answering the questions!
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 02:59 PM
@WolfSamurai, thanks so much for joining us! It's been awesome having you here to take our questions!
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 02:59 PM
Yeah, the vague range bands alone take the 4E out to me
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 02:59 PM
Thanks @WolfSamurai
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 02:59 PM
SPELLJAMMER!
WolfSamurai
25-Aug-18 02:59 PM
No problem everybody. I'm on something of a social media hiatus, but I like talking shop elsewhere and my Patreon is full of material for the game. Thank you all for your questions and have a good one.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:00 PM
@mmaneval, yeah, now that 5e has become so popular and offers dragonborn and tieflings in the PHB, it's easy to forget that this was a 4e innovation (and one that many people disagreed with). 13th Age has those races as well, and even treated them the same way 5e did, but making them the rarer races in the back of the race chapter of the book.
It's interesting to see some of the similar design patterns that ended up in 5e.
@Big Mac, the Dragon Empire has a location called Starport. Here's part of its description: "Stars dock there for rest and refitting."
Sounds perfect for Spelljammer.
The Overworld in 13th Age is extremely vague. It's both physically present (you can climb a mountain and get there), but also other-worldly, taking on aspects of the outer planes in other settings.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:03 PM
I backed ASH’s planar book, which I’m spacing on the name of now.
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 03:03 PM
@Matchstick If you like Spelljammer, you should come over and join us on the forums. We have a big SJ community there... 😃
...and @phantom_tim is looking for some more people to help him get a business case for a bespoke 13th Age forum set up. 😈
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:03 PM
The Overworld and Beyond, planar adventures for the 13th Age Roleplaying Game by the legendary Ash Law.
Zurei
25-Aug-18 03:04 PM
Forgot to capitalize Ash's name 😛
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:05 PM
That’s the one. Between that and the Book of Ages there are a ton of setting possibilities
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:05 PM
@Big Mac, in a previous age, a large, flying craft of some sort crashed into the Dragon Empire. Definitely some Spelljammer possibilities there.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:05 PM
I’ll join up for a 13th Age forum
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:06 PM
Races are simple to build in 13th Age. So if you want to add Giff PCs or other iconic Spelljammer races, it's a snap using 13th Age.
Monsters are a little harder to build, but not as hard as 3rd Edition (you don't give them ability scores or feats, and don't build them using the same rules as PCs).
Zurei
25-Aug-18 03:06 PM
This is true. I've been experimenting with adding a racial talent option as well, though it definitely is a bit trickier.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:07 PM
I tend to think I can mostly reskin monsters
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:07 PM
But before you go building any monsters, I'd recommend reskinning existing monsters. There are plenty across the various products, now. Find one that does what you want mechanically. Swap some abilities out, if you need to. Level them up or down (which is easy in 13A). And you've got yourself some Spelljammer monsters.
Zurei
25-Aug-18 03:07 PM
@Matchstick You can! very easily too
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 03:07 PM
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:08 PM
@Big Mac, incredible! What are the chances? 😉
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:08 PM
One thing I’d like to see is more human premade npcs
Zurei
25-Aug-18 03:08 PM
Bestiary 2 helped with that a bit actually. Though they are more champion/epic tier for the most part
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:08 PM
Guards, archers, soldiers, brigands, that kind of stuff
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:09 PM
@Matchstick I completely agree. I love that 5e supports these so well.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:09 PM
It’s nice to just grab a couple varieties of pirate for a scene
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:09 PM
I was just having a conversation with Martin K about adding some to his upcoming book, along with rules to create new ones quickly/easily.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:10 PM
I use generic people like that in Savage Worlds all the time
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:10 PM
The Battle Scenes books and organized play adventures have some great NPCs spread throughout, but you have to hunt them down. I'd love to have them in one spot.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:10 PM
That’s true.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:11 PM
Before the chat started, @Big Mac had the following question. I was waiting for us to start to answer it. "What gave you the idea of doing Escalation?"
To give credit where it's due, I didn't come up with the idea. There was a short-lived fanzine called Icon several years ago. That gave another member of the community the idea to launch a new fanzine, once the fans were zine-less.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:12 PM
The escalation die is amazing, not only in 13th Age but translated into other games like 5e
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:13 PM
He reached out to the community for help, and I volunteered. He's since moved on to other projects, so I'm partnered with one other editor. The two of us use a process that looks similar to Kanban, if you're familiar with agile software development, to produce the issues.
@Matchstick thank you very much!
Ha, I read that wrong.
So it's Rob or Jonathan who should be thanking you. 😄
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:14 PM
I keep wanting to contribute to Escalation, but I lack the talent. 😱
It’s really high quality
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 03:15 PM
If you build up a team, you can get a private editors forum at The Piazza @phantom_tim.
As for writing @Matchstick, you can always work with someone else to get them to help you refine things.
(edited)
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:16 PM
@Matchstick, perhaps you could just use some editing. Feel free to contact us offline with a draft if you'd like some input.
You can find our submission information on the web site:
https://escalationfanzine.blogspot.com/
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:17 PM
I’ve read all of them cover to cover
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:17 PM
@Big Mac, I would love to see the day when we have so many editors that we need a forum to keep us organized!
@Matchstick, that's awesome. I won't put you on the spot here, but we're always open to feedback. Please feel free to drop us a message and let us know what you like and what could use improvement.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:17 PM
They’re so much more than I expected from a fanzine (and I hope that doesn’t come across wrong)
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:18 PM
I want to make Escalation truly valuable to the community.
How do you find that Escalation is different from other fanzines?
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:18 PM
Already there IMO
The quality is way higher than I expected. Great ideas, well presented, and excellent art
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:20 PM
In addition to sending articles/art, if anyone wants to get more involved in producing Escalation, you can reach us via email (found on the top right corner of the web site).
Thanks, @Matchstick!
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:20 PM
I pictured something vaguely edited, little or no art, run off on a copier
😋
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:21 PM
That was our inspiration. I recall fanzines that looked like that back in the early days of RPGs. 😃
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 03:21 PM
Escallation certainly is impressive looking.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:21 PM
I have to give all the credit to my fellow editor for the layout. He does all of that.
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 03:21 PM
I've seen a super-old Spelljammer fanzine, where they made the Spelljammer logo out of ASCII art! LOL
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:22 PM
I think the biggest positive impression for me is how open to submissions it seems. Very inclusive.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:22 PM
@Big Mac that sounds like fun! I love ASCII art.
@Matchstick, so far, we haven't needed to reject anything we've received. We have a very talented community. Granted, some pieces need more extensive editing than others.
Question for those of you who have played/run 13th Age: which setting(s) have you used?
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:24 PM
Being willing to accept submissions and work with authors from across the community is admirable
mmaneval
25-Aug-18 03:25 PM
Dragon Empire, Glorantha, and Karthun
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:26 PM
@Matchstick, I've had ideas that I thought were cool enough that I suspected other people would enjoy them. I know the feeling of not being sure how to get those ideas out there for others to use. I want Escalation to be a vehicle to do that for as many people as possible.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:26 PM
Default setting. I’d love a 50 Fathoms type Age of Sail setting
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:26 PM
@mmaneval Karthun is one I haven't often heard people talk about for 13th Age. The Kickstarter support isn't done yet, is it?
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:27 PM
I’m also a sucker for a good desert setting
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:27 PM
@Matchstick it sounds like you enjoy Savage Worlds quite a bit.
You might want to check out Dragon Kings for a desert world (although it's not all desert) with 13th Age support.
mmaneval
25-Aug-18 03:27 PM
@phantom_tim No, the Kickstarter support isn't done, but I homebrewed some stuff on the fly as needed.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:28 PM
I do, it’s most of my GMing. I’d really like to do more 13th Age though
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:28 PM
@mmaneval what did you use for icons?
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:28 PM
I love SW, but I love 13a more
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:29 PM
@Matchstick, I don't have experience running 50 Fathoms with 13A, but I ran a Hellfrost campaign with 13A. That was a lot of fun.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:29 PM
Ooooooo, that’s a thought.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:29 PM
The feeling of big heroes who can make a difference against encroaching doom fit the setting well, I thought.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:30 PM
It’d be fun to try and convert 50F
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:30 PM
@Matchstick definitely. While we need to be careful about using other companies' IP in Escalation, if you have ideas on how to run 50F with its serial numbers filed off in 13A, that might make a great article.
mmaneval
25-Aug-18 03:31 PM
@phantom_tim I believe I used the gods and called it good. I think I may have even just had them each have 1 relationship and automatically get a benefit (whether there was a complication would be determined when they called upon the benefit). It was set to be a very short campaign. In a longer campaign, I probably would have spent more time figuring out what icons we were going to have.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:31 PM
GEARS TURNING
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:31 PM
How would you handle ship combat? Any classes that should be tweaked for a high seas feel? Any icon monsters needed? What are the icons for the setting?
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:32 PM
Maybe bite sized pieces
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:32 PM
@mmaneval, totally makes sense. If a campaign is short and has a strong theme already, it makes sense to de-emphasize icon choices or substitute them with a more generic "benny" for the players.
@Matchstick, for sure. That would be a colossal article if it covered everything.
You could theoretically write a whole campaign setting for it, after all.
We do have a high seas themed issue of Escalation on the horizon. It's too far off to commit to a date, but if you want to start pulling content together, you have some time.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:35 PM
Cool! I’m sure feeling inspired
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:36 PM
Here's another question for those who have played 13th Age: which mechanics have you borrowed and used in other game systems?
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:36 PM
I use OUT in SW
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:37 PM
That's a great one. It's system agnostic, so you could use it in any game where the PCs are meant to shine.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:37 PM
That’s my initial report. 🤓
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:38 PM
I've used the escalation die in other d20-based games. I love that it adds a new tactical element to combat (do you nova now, when there are lots of monsters out there, or do you wait until you're more accurate?), while also speeding up combat. I don't care for that "mopping up" stage that often occurs when your players know that success is a foregone conclusion.
I'd rather move on to the next scene than spend the next 20 minutes rolling and often missing, especially when I'm no longer willing to burn precious resources like daily spells.
13th Age fixed that with the escalation die.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:39 PM
Oh! I’ve used montages! They can be a lot of fun. Very involving for the table
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:40 PM
Yes! I'm so glad they received more detail in the GM Resource Book. That was one of my favorite things to come out of organized play.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:40 PM
Agreed.
Are there any sci-if rules?
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:41 PM
I've incorporated icon relationships into other games. That's another easy one, in terms of not being tightly tied to d20 mechanics.
There are! Amethyst is a sci-fi setting for 13th Age.
Compatible with the 13th Age roleplaying game
Which side will you choose? Which weapons will you wield? Earth is torn
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:41 PM
There are a lot more settings than I thought!
RobJN
25-Aug-18 03:42 PM
... can I be on her side?
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:42 PM
Absolutely.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:42 PM
Are there class design guides?
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:42 PM
Magic users and magical races destroy complex technology simply by being nearby.
So if you choose to side with the elves, your enemies will be the technology-wielding humans who are shored up behind the walls of their bastion cities.
Neither side is "good" or "evil." You can see why both sides are fighting. The humans have seen their world dominated by strange magic, and want to take it back. The magical races were here long before humans, but then withdrew. Now they're back, and don't appreciate those who appeared since they've been gone trying to eradicate them.
@Matchstick, class design guides for Amethyst?
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:45 PM
Just for 13a
In general
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:45 PM
No, I've never seen something like that documented. Every class is so different, I don't think a whole lot of guidance could be offered.
Rob Heinsoo wrote a blog post on either his own blog or on the Pelgrane blog that talked about the math behind PC damage. That would help with balance. But every class has its own mechanics.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:46 PM
That’s a good point. And one of the things I find very appealing
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:47 PM
Agreed. I didn't enjoy 4th Edition D&D until after the Essentials line came out and offered new class mechanics. I was glad to see 13th Age proceed in that direction.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:48 PM
There are so many tempting classes.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:48 PM
This might be a good time to provide a link to the 13th Age-related forum posts that have appeared on The Piazza.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:49 PM
I find the G+ group is active and helpful
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:49 PM
One of the reasons I organized this chat was so that more people would become aware of the Piazza community and its 13th Age discussions.
The G+ community is fantastic.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:49 PM
I’ll sign up there for sure
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:50 PM
The Piazza is a no-drama, helpful community. In that way, it's very similar to the G+ community. It's much easier to find information that you recall discussing if you need to look for it later, when it's hosted on forums with search capability.
It's also a different group of people. The Piazza tends to be focused on campaign settings. So if you want to run 13th Age in one of the other established settings, they have awesome resources.
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 03:51 PM
@Matchstick: If you sign up soon, there might be an admin awake to activate your account. 😉
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:51 PM
I try not to overload myself with too many social media accounts, and have never regretted creating an account on the Piazza.
(edited)
trseratt
25-Aug-18 03:52 PM
That sounds interesting. I’d like to see what others have done. We just started our 3rd campaign in Midgard.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:52 PM
If you sign up, please check out the existing 13th Age topics or create new ones of your own.
@trseratt I adore Midgard.
And Wolfgang Baur is just plain nice.
Midgard has its own forum on The Piazza, by the way.
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 03:54 PM
There is a forum for Midgard at The Piazza:
http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewforum.php?f=94Campaign settings "trump" rules at The Piazza, so if you use 13th Age and Midgard together, you can drop "[13th Age]" topics in the Midgard forum.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:54 PM
When I want a skeleton of a setting, where my players and I can fill in the details, the Dragon Empire is my default. But when I want a rich setting where more of the map has already been filled in, Midgard is the first place I turn to.
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 03:54 PM
Ninjad by @phantom_tim
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:54 PM
Thanks for providing the handy link, @Big Mac.
We're down to the final 5 minutes of our chat. Any last questions for me or that you'd like the community to respond to?
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 03:55 PM
Richard Green hangs out at The Piazza too. He puts up a heck of a lot of free content and provides 13th Age support for his setting Parsantium.
trseratt
25-Aug-18 03:55 PM
I’ll hav to check Midgard out too. Thanks.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:55 PM
I have to head out, but my registration request is in. Thanks a ton to everyone!
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:56 PM
@Matchstick, you'd mentioned a desert setting, I believe. Parsantium was originally based on Al-Qadim, although it took some things in its own direction.
You may enjoy that setting as well. And it has official 13th Age support.
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 03:56 PM
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:56 PM
@Matchstick, thank you for joining us and for your awesome questions and insight!
trseratt
25-Aug-18 03:56 PM
I have Richards stuff but haven’t got too much into it. Looks very professional though
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:56 PM
Al-Quadim, there’s a blast from the past
I’m in! 🧐
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:57 PM
Al-Qadim is yet another setting with its own forum on The Piazza, @Matchstick. 😉
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 03:57 PM
Well if you are going to sign up to the forums @Matchstick, I might as well give you forum member access to stay on the Discord server. 😃
Parsantium started off as a homebrew Al-Qadim location.
Matchstick
25-Aug-18 03:58 PM
Excellent. Thanks everyone!
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 03:58 PM
Thanks for stopping by @Matchstick.
trseratt
25-Aug-18 03:59 PM
Thanks for hosting and people chatting
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:59 PM
@waderockett (he/him) had mentioned the Iconic podcast, but I don't think we provided a link. As far as I know, it's the only podcast dedicated to 13th Age. I highly recommend it.
https://iconicpodcast.com/
A podcast about all things 13th Age
trseratt
25-Aug-18 03:59 PM
Great job Tim
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 03:59 PM
@trseratt, thanks a bunch! I appreciate it.
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 03:59 PM
I missed that one @phantom_tim.
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 04:00 PM
I was busy trying to eat pizza and get ready for playing Spelljammer on Twitch, so I didn't have much time for research.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 04:00 PM
You definitely have a good excuse. 😃
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 04:00 PM
Can you get the Iconic people to come over and post about their podcast episodes?
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 04:01 PM
I'll suggest it to them. @johnsonny was on here earlier, so I'll @-mention him now, so he'll see this. 😉
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 04:01 PM
It's really helpful that you push out news about Escallation, as I don't have time for constantly looking at your website.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 04:01 PM
My pleasure. Just trying to get the word out to grow the 13th Age community.
RobJN
25-Aug-18 04:02 PM
That's right, you should be reading through Thorn's Chronicle, @Big Mac 😉
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 04:02 PM
Any final questions about 13th Age?
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 04:02 PM
Isn't there a book about the 12 other ages due out? When is that due?
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 04:03 PM
Yes, it's called Book of Ages.
The pre-order is already available, and includes the PDF, which you'll get right away.
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to be eaten by it. The game is called 13th Age—so what’s in those 12 previous Ages? What fantastic treasur
trseratt
25-Aug-18 04:03 PM
Book of ages is awesome. I have the Pdf
Fun world building info for the group.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 04:04 PM
It's both content for the Dragon Empire as well as a mini-game that allows your table to build its own ages.
Thank you all for taking time out of your weekend to join us!
I hope this has been fun/educational.
Big Mac
25-Aug-18 04:06 PM
Thanks for doing this Q&A session @phantom_tim.
phantom_tim
25-Aug-18 04:06 PM
You can always reach out to me on The Piazza or various other social media channels.
The link above has my RPG-related hangouts on social media.
My pleasure, @Big Mac! Thank you for the opportunity!
On August 25, 2018, The Piazza hosted a 13th Age Q&A on its Discord. I was the host of this three-hour chat, which featured 13th Age designers Jonathan Tweet, Wade Rocket, and Aaron Roudabush. Several other noteworthy members of the community joined us, including Nick from the Iconic Podcast and Martin Killmann, designer of Dark Pacts & Ancient Secrets.
